Can I ask everyone a favour? If someone says something sus about climate change, asylum seekers, the economy etc, can you please counter them? Even if it’s uncomfortable.
We need to change the culture which normalises the cruelty on Manus Island, the apathy on climate…
Omg. I started reading that Salon piece “How to Talk to a Conservative About Climate Change.” I am a conservative. Apparently my problem is that my moral approach is different from the care/harm and justice/fairness model which is the centerpiece of liberal morality.
"…conservative morality tends to emphasize questions of “loyalty/betrayal” (staying true to your cultural group), “authority/subversion” (upholding long-held institutions) and “sanctity/degradation” (fending off defilement)."
So basically Salon says conservatives are chauvinistic authoritarians who cling to the sanctity of our institutions for their own sake. What a heaping, steaming pile of bullshit! How about “I don’t trust small, unaccountable groups of people with secret data and vast power?” Or “after you are caught making shit up I stop trusting you?” Or “I don’t respect or trust scientists who refuse to share raw data with peers and silence dissent?” And of course “Money, fear and elections, the perfect storm”
It makes sense to me that human behavior is increasing the temperature. But if we don’t do something about China and India, both of whom are exempt from Kyoto, nothing else matters. Anything done to try to reduce emissions in the west will be overwhelmed by China. And recusing emissions will slow down technological development and delay the entry of engineering solutions which may actually be able to do something about the climate, which bureaucrats will never, ever be able to fix.
Wow. there’s some good points there…
Wait a minute! no they’re not. They’re the same old horseshit every conservative I hae ever debated goes on with .
Lets just put them to bed:
1. “I don’t trust small, unaccountable groups of people with secret data and vast power?”
This is the weirdest, most verbose example of the extreme gullibility of the conservatives and a demonstration of the inability to distinguish between the quality of types of information or even understand why evidence-based, peer-reviewed institutional research is superior to all other forms of knowledge.
The Science Community - the very discipline that encourages doubt based on evidence and reasonable logical thought, the discipline that is responsible for modern medicine, putting planes in the air, space travel and (oh yeah) the entire corporate world (including, lest we forget, the fossil fuel industry) that is trying to use it’s control of wealth in Western nations to prevent humans taking action on climate change simply because it does not want to affect its bottom line - has made up its mind about Climate Change. There is no debate anymore so you can go back to watching American Gladiators ok? It’s been sorted out.
You can find the meta-analyses yourself - they’re fucking EVERYWHERE - and I’m tired of providing the mountains of research on a point that any single person with a half-functioning brain has already accepted.
Actually fuck it, its ridiculously easy and I dont expect you to actually do your own research (heaven forbid) here’s a couple of them:
What I’m interested in is your comment about “small, unaccountable groups of people with secret data and vast power?”
a) If you think that all of the major scientific bodies on the planet, with the ONLY rigourous peer-review accountability systems in place to vet and criticise their publications and analyses are SMALL and UNACCOUNTABLE while thinking that their primary reliance on diminishing governmental funding, philanthropy and volunteers is VAST POWER when compared with the industries who are control TRILLIONS of dollars in global wealth and are actively combatting any meaningful resistance to climate change, there is no amount of education that can save you. It takes a special kind of brain damage to even be capable of such wilful ignorance.
b) In what way is the data “secret”? That’s the most ridiculous claim I’ve ever heard, I cant believe you’re not embarrassed to post that. If you got off your lazy arse and looked, the data is anything BUT secret, but its more convenient to believe the papers because someone explains it all to you nice and simply. Shit, it’s easier than reading those “big words” in those “elitist journals” who have the hide to assume you’re smart enough to understand them.
2. “after you are caught making shit up I stop trusting you?”
I assume you are talking about the IPCC? Cool. Quite seriously, you should stop trusting the IPCC and do what any right minded sceptic should do: look up evidence from other peer-reviewed accountable journal (NO, sorry. Single author, non peer-reviewed studies funded by interest groups set up by industry are NOT evidence, they are PROPAGANDA. We’ve been through this 30 years ago with the Tabacco industry - you people really need to understand how to find out the truth about the world around you, seriously, our planet depends on it).
In fact, ignore the IPCC altogether, look at any of the other 11,000 global Scientific Institutions who have published peer-reviewed articles on the subject. I’ll meet you back at reality when you’re done and you’ve realised that you can’t just say “well there were some emails at that one organisation that time where someone said that someone lied about one thing so the WHOLE SCIENCE IS FUCKED”, when every other organisation who actually has accountability measures in place and evidential requirement for their publications supports the same scientific view.
To summarise: allegations of dishonesty within an organisation mandate scepticism from everyone. That’s the correct response. Making up your own little fantasy world as a substitute for truth is the incorrect response. Cool? Cool.
3. “I don’t respect or trust scientists who refuse to share raw data with peers and silence dissent?”
Point about refusing to share raw data: we sorted that out above. Even if there was data that was being hidden away it would be irrelevant due to the incredible amount of data that you CAN access that ISN’T hidden away.
End of story. Shit point. Move on.
What dissent? If you think that 0.7% is dissent (thats the actual percentage of scientists that say they think climate change is no man made - the 3% we hear about so readily is made up of 2.3% undecided as to the cause and 0.7% against - evolutionary biology has around the same numbers.)
If you think that 7 people, in a room of 10,000 all of whom agree on an issue, are more likely to be right than the others, you’re an idiot. That’s ALL you are. You’re not a free thinker, you’re not transgressive, you’re not even a conspiracy theorist. You’re just a moron.
4. “Money, fear and elections, the perfect storm”
I’ll assume you are making a reference to big business here, because if you’re suggesting that the “evil scientific institutions” around the world are conspiring to gain a little bit more research money, and are synchronising watches in order to target each countries electoral dates, while ignoring that big business/industry:
a) is very slow to react to large scale structural change because is expensive;
b) stands to lose billions; and
c) more financially exposed to climate change than any other cross section of the global community.
Then, again, you’ve found a well of stupidity with greater reserves than all of the world oil derricks combined.
As for your final bogus point that reducing emissions will slow down technological advances that could be beneficial to the climate, you need to pull your head in. The industries that need to perform the biggest structural changes (oil, food, electricity) both have to do it anyway regardless of climate change (peak fossil fuel/phosphorus), and also need the planet in order to perform such R&D to develop such solutions. it is a reductio ad absurdum.
Was really nice talking to you.
- Leonardo DiCaprio: *names his child Oscar*
- Doctor: "Would you like to hold h-"
- Leonardo DiCaprio: "Say it like we rehearsed it."
- Doctor: *sighs* "And the Oscar goes to..."
i can’t believe it’s 2014 and there’s still no gay romantic comedy about vin diesel and dwayne johnson falling in love
They raise a gaggle of kids undercover working for a gov’t agency together